OFFICIAL: SENSITIVE FOI 24/25-0546 DOCUMENT 81
Minutes of the Independent Advisory Council to the NDIS
Meeting 3 – 2 November 2023
1pm, hosted on MS Teams
Members
Ms Leah van Poppel, Principal Member
Adjunct Associate Professor Jennifer Cullen
Ms Sylvana Mahmic
Mr James Manders
Dr George Taleporos
NDIA Representatives
Dr Denis Napthine AO, NDIA Board Director
Ms Rebecca Falkingham, NDIA CEO
Ms Corri McKenzie, DCEO Service Design and Improvement
Ms Meredith Allan, NDIA Board Director (observer)
Ms Donna redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irreleva Participant Advocate (observer session 2.1)
Mr Scott McNaughton, DCEO Service Delivery (session 4.1)
Mr Andrew redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irrelevant m GM Operations, Performance and Capability (session 4.1)
Mr Ed redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irrelevant Branch Manager, Operations and Housing Support (session 4.1)
Ms Samantha redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irrelevant materi IAC Senior Independent Advisor
Ms Sarah redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irrelevant Assistant Director, Independent Advisory Council Secretariat
Ms Louise redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - a/g Senior Project Officer, Independent Advisory Council Secretariat
Attending
Dr Rhonda Galbally AC, served as a Commissioner, Royal Commission into Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation of People with Disability (session 3.1)
Apologies
Mr Kurt Fearnley, NDIA Board Chairperson
Ms Liz Reid AM, IAC Member
Mr Gavin Burner, member of IAC’s Intellectual Disability Reference Group, and representative of people with intellectual disability
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Principal Member’s Welcome and Open
1.1. Principal Member’s welcome
Principal Member Ms Leah van Poppel opened the meeting with an acknowledgement of country. Ms van Poppel acknowledged that the IAC was awaiting 6 IAC member vacancies to be resolved through the government decision-making process.
* Ms van Poppel informed Members that Ms Liz Reid AM is finishing her term with the IAC in December and `redacted: s47F- personal privacy`. Work is underway to recruit into this position. * Ms van Poppel referenced Mental Health Awareness Week and ADHD Awareness month in October, campaigns which are important for creating awareness of the needs of people with invisible disabilities. * The Principal Member Reports from recent out of session meetings on PACE and Hospital Supports were now available in Diligent. A PACE walk-through with Mr Garth O’Brien’s team is being arranged as soon as possible. * Ms van Poppel introduced and welcomed Ms Samantha `redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irrelevant materi` the new IAC Senior Independent Advisor. Ms `redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irrelevant mate` most recently worked at the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission and has a long history of working in disabled persons’ organisations. * **Action 1:** Ms van Poppel to write to the Prime Minister and the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme to draw their attention to ensuing governance issues for the IAC as a result of the delay to IAC membership appointments, and to seek an explanation for the delay.1.2. Declarations of interest *
redacted: s47F- personal privacy1.3. Confirmation of minutes and matters arising * Members confirmed the minutes from the previous meeting.
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Council Reports
2.1. Members’ reports ‘from the ground’ * Members reported on issues arising in their respective jurisdictions including:
* The community is surprised by how much attention the findings of the Royal Commission into Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation of People with Disability (Disability Royal 2OFFICIAL: SENSITIVE Page 319 of 402
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Commission) on segregation in education has received. This has triggered many
conversations about education for children with disabilities. The NDIS has a role to play
in helping children and adults with disability to be more involved in mainstream
education.
* It is good news that the Disability Royal Commission findings have prompted this
conversation. However, it shows that we have a long way to go to close segregated
education.
* There is disillusionment amongst service providers and families about market quality and
the role of the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission, including the meaning of
‘registration’. There is community distress following recent media reports about abuse of
participants.
* There should be more information and support for parents to understand the risks of
some early intervention therapies and choosing safe service providers for their child.
Early Childhood Partners and Local Area Coordinators should play a role in this
education.
* Some service providers are receiving letters from the Quality and Safeguards
Commission with an authoritarian tone and providers feel this has happened without
warning. Some providers are questioning the benefit of being registered, as it is an
expensive and time-consuming process. Some providers do not see the connection
between registration and quality.
* Providers are aware of the national expansion of PACE and are hopeful it will result in
improvements. Providers have said the changes that will come with PACE are not on the
radar of many families of young children. Ms McKenzie said there is information readily
available to the public about PACE. Due to the gradual roll out of PACE, targeted
information will be given to participants and their families when the participant’s plan
changes to PACE.
* Mr James Manders is launching the Powered Media Platform today in Adelaide. This is
part of RPH Australia, a free to air radio reading network.
* There is continued concern for not-for-profit providers in financial trouble and how some
do not have insurance because they cannot afford it.
* We need to engage more with not-for-profit service providers. They provide a critical
service and some are considering leaving the market. Some providers are offloading
assets to maintain their capital. Ms Falkingham said the NDIA is very conscious of this.
* There are ongoing delays with home and living decisions and getting plans approved.
* Reports that Australian Taxation Office (ATO) changes to paying domestic or private
workers superannuation is causing confusion around how self-managing participants
employ carers, creating stress and uncertainty among self-managing participants. It was
suggested the ATO should speak to people who self manage so it can understand their
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perspective. Ms Falkingham took this question on notice and will raise this with the head
of the ATO.
* There are concerns that some participants in Specialist Disability Accommodation (SDA)
are not receiving enough funding for the on-site overnight assistance they need. When a
group of participants live in a shared home, some participants want NDIS planner to think
about everyone living on the SDA site when they make individual participant’s plans.2.2. Board Chair and CEO update * Dr Denise Napthine provide the following updates from the Board:
* The presence of Dr Napthine and Ms Allan, NDIA Board Directors, at the meeting shows
a continued partnership between the Board and the IAC.
* The Board has recently met in Hobart and Brisbane. Next year the Board is scheduled to
meet in various places around the country. The Board has a commitment to meeting with
staff, providers and participants around the country.
* Dr Napthine acknowledged the recent national expansion of PACE and acknowledged
the work of Mr Garth `redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irreleva` and his team. National expansion will be gradual.
* Dr Napthine said that work is underway to respond to the Disability Royal Commission
findings. Soon work will start on responding to the NDIS Review.
* The quarterly report has recently been signed off, and this will go to the Disability
Ministers’ meeting this week.
* Dr Napthine acknowledged the NDIS has made a difference and has made great
achievements in the past decade.
* The Board is currently focused on improving services for children, First Nations people
and rural and remote communities. The employment strategy is also a focus for the
Board. There has been a lot of good work to improve decision making to reduce the
number of cases that go to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.
* There has also been a lot of focus on hospital discharge and there have been some good
achievements in this area.
* The Young People in Residential Aged Care program continues to have positive
outcomes.
* There is an ongoing genuine effort to tackle fraud.
* Dr Napthine said the Board has approved the Terms of Reference for consultation for the
next round of the pricing review.
* The Board is exploring the benefits and risks of artificial intelligence for participants.
There is a need to manage risk but there is also a lot of opportunity there.Ms Rebecca Falkingham provided the following updates about the NDIS Review and the Disability Royal Commission:
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* The NDIS Review report will most likely be made public after National Cabinet meets in
early December. The Agency has been actively involved with the Review in the form of
information sharing.
* The Agency will use co-design to implement the Review findings.
* The Agency will need to work quickly to decide what will be prioritised. The Agency would
be grateful for any advice from the IAC.
* The Disability Royal Commission handed down its final report in September. The Board
has been briefed on the recommendations and the implications for the Agency.
* All governments will be expected to respond to the Disability Royal Commission final
report.
* The NDIA will be involved in providing advice to the taskforce that has been set up within
Department of Social Services.
* The Disability Royal Commission was supportive of a number of directions that the
Agency is moving in, including policies around participant safeguarding and supported
decision making.Ms Falkingham provided the following updates about PACE:
* The gradual national expansion of PACE began on 30 October. The roll out will take
about 18 months and during this time staff will be working across two systems.
* The Agency will closely monitor systems and processes.
* There will be a focus on making sure staff, providers, participants and partners have all
the information they need.
* There will also be a focus on keeping volumes of work manageable during the early
stages of the transition so staff can adjust to the new ways of working.Ms Falkingham provided the following updates on the First Nations Employment Network Conference in Brisbane in October:
* This important forum allowed for First Nations staff to be heard about how the Agency
can support them and participants.
* Ms Falkingham met with recent graduates of the First Nations Apprenticeship Program
and acknowledged their talent in the Agency.Ms Falkingham provided the following updates about the Home and Living project’s grant recipients:
* The Agency has announced the grant recipients for Round 2 of the home and living
demonstration projects.
* Participants and the disability sector told the Agency it is important to recognise and
promote new ways for participants to pursue their home and living goals, which led to the
introduction of the home and living demonstration projects.
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* The new initiative brings participants and the sector together to design and test better
ways of delivering home and living supports.Ms Falkingham also said that:
* There has been very good progress in the National Contact Centre transformation
strategy. There have been improvements noted in how quickly a query is resolved, time
to answer calls and overall user experience.
* The Agency is co-designing a LGBTQIA+ summit for 2024. The event will include
speaking opportunities for staff, participants and champions. It is also hoped that the
Minister will speak at the summit.
* **Action 2:** Schedule an Out of Session meeting later this year or early next year to
discuss the NDIS Review report and prioritisation of the recommendations.
* **Action 3:** The Chief Executive Officer to seek advice from the Commissioner of the
Australian Taxation Office about the changes to paying domestic or private workers
superannuation and implications for self-managing participants who employ carers.3. Disability Royal Commission
3.1. Royal Commission into Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation of People
with Disability - Recommendations
* Dr Rhonda Galbally joined the meeting to speak about the recommendations of the
Disability Royal Commission and her reflections.
* Dr Galbally said:
* The issue of segregation of people with disability was a distressing part of the Disability
Royal Commission experience.
* The neglect of the opportunity for development of people with disability was also a
distressing part of the experience.
* Dr Galbally acknowledged the work of the NDIA on supported decision making.
* People with disability are more likely to work in segregated education settings if they
went to a segregated school.
* There has been a push for many years for mainstream schools to be more inclusive.
* Many people with disability have restrictions placed on their education, such as limited
days of attendance and being taken away from class for therapy. This is due to the
school not being ready or able to support the child with disability. Personal care support
should be better organised to minimise time away from the classroom.
* Bullying at school is another issue which causes families to feel more comfortable
sending their child to a special school. There needs to be a long-term commitment to
inclusion. There should be no tolerance of bullying at schools.
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* The Commission has made recommendations for better training of teachers at university
and more professional development.
* South Australia has introduced specialist teachers with expertise in autism in every South
Australian primary school.
* Changing the education system will take time and money. There is a risk that momentum
could be lost over time.
* When people with disability and people without disability are included together in settings
like school, this creates a safer environment. There is less violence and abuse when
there are more eyes on what is happening.
* The NDIS has an impact on whether or not the child is an individual within a school, and
if the child needs a medical model or a personal support model within a school. These
are important considerations for the NDIS and something the IAC could think about.
* Disability Employment Enterprises, or sheltered workshops, should use the Social Firm
model where people are paid an award wage and the workplace includes people with
disability and without disability. Currently there is little incentive to move to the new
model. The NDIS should think about how to create incentives for organisations to move
to the Social Firm model. There is a recommendation that this happens within the next 11
years.
* The NDIS and the IAC should explore a different model of shared living. This includes
better tenancy rights, the ability for tenants to have a say in who they live with and being
able to choose their own support workers in the home.4. Supported Independent Living
4.1. Changes to Supported Independent Living
* Mr Scott McNaughton, Mr Andrew `redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irrelevant m` and Mr Ed `redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irrelevan` presented changes to
Supported Independent Living (SIL).
* Mr McNaughton said:
* SIL is one of the highest payment areas on the scheme. There has been a 40 per cent
increase in the number of people applying for SIL for the first time.
* Factors contributing to this increase include hospital discharge, younger adults applying
for SIL, ageing parents/caregivers, and a shortage of social housing. There were less
applications during the COVID pandemic.
* In response to increased first time SIL applications, the home and living team began
looking at how decision making could be made more consistent and transparent.
* There is a new process where senior and highly trained delegates are making decisions
about SIL. There is also an effort to increase the clarity of information about what
evidence is needed to make a decision.
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* As a result of this new process, 40 per cent of new to SIL applications are being diverted
away from SIL, towards other suitable home and living options.
* There are ongoing discussions around how to balance choice and control for participants
who want to live alone, and scheme sustainability.
* When a participant has a high ratio of supports and funding is reduced, the Agency
needs to take a measured step-down approach. Reduces ratios need to be based on
factual evidence and participant safety a consideration.
* Support coordinators have a role in helping participants to explore different home and
living options.
* There is an issue where some SIL providers will increase support ratios over what is
funded, and this results in early plan reviews.
* SIL needs to be part of a home and living solution, rather than something based on
support needs exceeding a certain level.
* Mr `redacted: s22(1)(a)(ii) - irrelevant m` said:
* The Agency needs to encourage planners, support coordinators and participants to think
about other home and living solutions, not just SIL, which might be better suited. These
supports might be more expensive in the short term but will reduce costs in the longer
term.
* Sometimes the SDA decision can affect the SIL outcome, for example, if a participant
wants an SDA decision to live alone, then there is no ability to have shared supports.
This is a consideration for scheme sustainability and drives up the cost of SIL.
* Individualised Living Options (ILO) has worked well in Western Australia, but the Agency
needs to improved facilitation of ILOs in other areas, particularly in SIL-based provider
markets.
* The new SIL process is likely resulting in some delays in decisions because the process
is more in-depth. The Agency is addressing this by increasing the number of staff making
decisions.
* The number of pending home and living decisions in the backlog has started to reduce
and should reduce further as staff become faster and more experience in making
decisions.
* **Action 4:** IAC be provided with a breakdown of data about the percentage of Supported
Independent Living funding packages including items related to housing costs such as
Specialist Disability Accommodation.
* **Action 5:** IAC to be briefed on industrial relations issues in relation to Individualised
Living Options.
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Workplans
5.1. Reference Group Workplan Development
Members discussed how the Reference Group Workplan Priorities may inform and align to a new IAC workplan and noted:
* their comfort with the Reference Group Workplan Priorities, as presented. * recognition of the need for workplans to remain flexible enough to be responsive to recommendations from the NDIS Review and Disability Royal Commission. * Reference Group workplan alignment with the Reform for Outcomes working groups, without there being doubling up of content for IAC Members. * meeting scheduling difficulties for IAC Members involved in multiple other consultative processes, leading to both content and meeting overlaps.
Ms van Poppel shared the intention to hold a joint face-to-face meeting of IAC and Reference Group Members in March or April 2024 which would give rise to an opportunity to further distil workplan priorities and alignment between the IAC and Reference Groups.
5.2. IAC WorkplanMs van Poppel asked IAC Members to consider ahead of the next meeting how the IAC will progress its workplan.
Members and the Senior Independent Advisor noted:
* The option of extending the workplan to January, due to the imminent release of the
NDIS Review findings and the recent release of the recommendations of the Disability
Royal Commission.
* That the IAC considers the provision of shorter, more succinct advice to the Board early
next year, rather than lengthier pieces of advice, to ensure the IAC’s advice is captured in
a timely manner and whilst sector consultation takes place.6. Co-design Working Groups
6.1. Reform for Outcomes Working Group UpdatesDue to time constraints, it was suggested by Ms van Poppel and agreed by IAC Members that this item be addressed at an Out of Session meeting.
Action 6: An Out of Session meeting be scheduled to provide Reform for Outcomes Working Group updates.
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Meeting Close
7.1. Workforce Dialogue
Ms van Poppel provided an update about her IAC representation at monthly Workforce Dialogue meetings, newly established by the Minister of the National Disability Insurance Scheme.
* The group consists of NDIA representatives, the Quality and Safeguards Commissioner,
DRCO representatives, unions and disability services.
* It has been tasked with starting discussion around key issues with four identified priority
areas:
* Pay and conditions
* Training
* Worker safety
* Pathways to reform.
* Overall, representations from Ms van Poppel and DRCOs have focused on ensuring the
disability community more broadly has the opportunity to have a say on any defined
issues. This is clearly agreed by all parties.
7.2. Next meeting
* The next IAC meeting will be held in Sydney on 7 December.
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