Submission to “Thriving Kids” Inquiry
By: Heather L. E. McKay
Date: 2/10/25
Key Points:
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Thriving kids is based on ABA, which has been proven to cause trauma, cPTSD, PTSD and suicidality in autistic people.
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The places that “Thriving Kids” has been proposed to be held, are venues and places that are not accessible to autistic people, in fact, we often actively avoid them due to trauma inflicted in those spaces.
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Problematic language is being used that is only based in stigmatism and hatred of autistic people, and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what autism is – is driving the ignorance and complete misunderstanding of how to help us.
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Thriving Kids Program has significant potential to do real damage to children and autistic adults
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The program focusses on 0 – 9 y/o’s: Autism does not stop or go away at age 9.
Not Neuroaffirming:
Investigations by the autistic community into the “Inklings Program” (which has been proposed as the base therapy of the new “Thriving Kids” program)
have resulted in negative feedback all over the country, and internationally. The program is (from reading the notes and information about it) based on “Conversion Therapy for autistic people”. That’s what the autistic community call any ‘therapy’ that is based on Ivan Pavlov’s (“Classical Conditioning”), John B Watson’s (“Behaviourist Manifesto”), BF Skinner’s (“Operant Conditioning”), or Ivar Lovaas’ (“ABA”).
The “CliniKids” organisation is one that autistic people abhor and will not go near, due to its obsession with behaviourism, and the Inklings Program is no exception.
ABA (which the Inklings program is entrenched in), has been proven to cause trauma, cPTSD and PTSD and suicidality in autistic people, but has also been proven to not even work…. So why is the government willing to spend and therefore waste, billions of dollars on a program that is based on other programs that have already been proven to NOT WORK?
https://therapistndc.org/aba-is-not-effective-so-says-the-latest-report from-the-department-of-defense/ This research is from the government that spends billions on it annually. They spend the money hoping that the outcome will change – but it never does… the expenditure just expands and increases year on year – that’s the literal definition of stupidity, and yet our government wants to repeat this blow out of expenditure – on something that does not even work and has been proven to not work. Why????
It is laughable and ridiculous that some of the submissions so far have lauded themselves as ‘neuroaffirming’ when they prove themselves as not knowing or understanding the meaning of that term. Some have listed DIR Floortime as ‘neuroaffirming’, when in fact the autistic community has denounced it as abusive and as bad as ABA. How is the government going to define ‘neuroaffirming’ if they eventually do agree and listen to the autistic community? Because neuroaffirming by the autistic communities definition is totally different to the behaviourists understanding of it. For something to be neuroaffirming – it must not include ANY form of behaviourism AT ALL.
I have written five reference books outlining everything wrong with ABA, DIR Floortime, PBS and every other named ABA/ behaviourism based ‘therapy’ – with 280 references to back up my knowledge and expertise on the subject. If you wish to read all of that proof within a very large and detailed set of reference books – with recommendations on how to actually help autistic people instead, and decrease government spending at the same time; I suggest you read them for yourselves: “Autism the Big Book Set of Help” by Heather L. E. McKay: https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0DB6268PP I’d be happy to send you a copy of “book 3: ABA and the Alternatives” that details why the Thriving Kids program will not only fail, but will also waste billions of dollars, while also traumatising a whole new generation of autistic people, as well as forcing that generation to be reliant on things like the NDIS for the rest of their lives.
Explain to me how a government that is recommending something that harms our community is of benefit to it? Please explain how you can recommend anything, if you haven’t read books and research like mine, that
took years to write and compile – that are backed up by the autistic community… but instead you prefer research from a group or organisation that the autistic community are actively fighting against – one that doesn’t listen to our community and continues to do harm.
Not a medical condition:
Some of the other submissions so far have requested that nurses and medical professionals are best suited to help autistic people. This statement is not only ridiculous but is also immediately disproven by its lack of evidence and lack of facts. Autism is diagnosed by the DSM or ICD – which is the psychiatric field, not medical. Nurses have also been proven in recent years to have limited knowledge of autism and/ or of developmental delays – in fact, in the past and present, nurses have actually asked to be trained by autistic people, and by people with different neurology’s – to better understand us and how to help us. How does moving therapy and supports to the medical world help us. We already have waiting lists and not enough doctors and nurses, and its being proposed to move things onto them… explain how this will actually work? Especially in regional areas where doctors and nurses are especially in high demand, but those regional areas can’t attract them or keep them.
Misunderstanding of what autism is:
it has come to the attention of the autistic community that the people championing the use of this “Thriving Kids” Program have utterly no understanding of what autism is. Their use of words like “Mild” or “Moderate” demonstrate that lack of knowledge and understanding perfectly. Please explain to me how someone who knows nothing about autism can be recommending a program that they obviously don’t understand what it is or what it does, but also don’t understand the people or the struggles of the people who they are recommending it for???
Please explain to me how a program that was invented to gaslight mothers of disabled children (Inklings program), and has been pointed out to likely cause postpartum depression will help in any way? A program that is based on forcing children to mask their disabilities instead of helping them learn to cope in an ableist society that is discriminating specifically against only people who are autistic, or developmentally delayed?
Please explain to me why organisations like ANPA have not had a response from Mr Butler with regards to that discrimination, which is now being taken to the UNCRPD because of their lack of response within the given 30 days response time? Mr Butler denies receiving the letter, but the organisations have proof of receipt – on more than one occasion.
Moving one group of disabled people away from a service that is designed for all disabled people constitutes a violation of the UNCRPD and the optional protocol, but our government has not responded to any of us, I also put in a
complaint and had a dismissive reply. Please explain why no one is responding?
Moving Children from current supports that do help – onto one that has been proven to not work and actually cause trauma is unconscionable. Please explain why they think it’s Ok to discriminate just against autistic children and those with developmental delays?
0-9yo
Autism is a neurological difference which often comes with a developmental difference. …. Not necessarily a ‘delay’ – but a difference. Eg: one autistic person might be delayed in speech, and another will be hyperlexic, or hyperverbal.
How does the “thriving kids” program address this kind of difference when it is proposing a “one size fits all” type design?
Program not developed or made in consultation with the autistic community:
As per the letter sent to Mr Butler by ANPA – Mr Butler or the NDIA did not consult the autistic community before making this decision, or before rigorous testing of the program by the autistic community was made – which also
violates the UNCRPD and Optional Protocol, which Australia is bound by. Please explain how you can roll out a program or even suggest its use when the autistic community does not approve of it and likely never will – due to its background routed in behaviourism and conversion therapy. This does not align with “choice” of service or provider, or with “do no harm” policies within Allied health and medical fields. Explain how you plan to take an abusive therapy and make it non abusive. And explain how it’s a ‘choice’ when you give the families no other choice except this program??
Venues proposed by government for the Thriving Kids Program to be held are not appropriate.
Places like schools, maternal health nurse, community houses or doctors offices are definitely not appropriate.
Doctors offices are already overrun with patients – they do not have space, staff or time to add more services. Explain how that would be appropriate or would work?
If you look at the recent information about the rise in homeschooling figures – you’ll find that the majority of families causing that increase are from Neurodivergent families.
Families that have not only been failed by the schools and the government (because they also don’t understand autism, and use PBS – a form of ABA on the students), the children and parents have actually been traumatised by
those institutions. My own autistic children and I, are part of that traumatised autistic community. Being an autistic person myself who suffers from school induced trauma, and a parent of two children who were also traumatised by that environment – I can assure you – we cannot access those spaces. They are totally inaccessible places to us, and many other homeschooling families feel the same way.
My children are too old to access maternal health nurse facilities, and accessing ABA based therapy in a community space is something we would (and do) avoid at all costs. So… please explain to me – who will be accessing this “Thriving Kids” Program? Where and how? I don’t know any autistic families that would willingly put their child into an abusive ‘therapy’, or allow their children to re-enter the institution that traumatised them in the first place – to receive more trauma, in the form of a program that was not built or designed with our input. Explain how schools – who are already failing miserably in supporting neurodivergent children, can help – in any way at all? How are you going to first train schools to undo the damage they are currently doing, and how this program fits into that.
Universities are causing some of the issues:
Please explain how you are going to address universities who are teaching ABA and PBS to all new graduates – including the master of autism courses, teaching/education degrees etc – the courses that are most likely going to be delivering your “Thriving Kids” program.
No degree in Australia has been reported by the autistic community to teach neuroaffirming techniques (like I explain in my books). In fact, all universities in Australia have been reported (by my community) as teaching abuse tactics to their graduates, and that’s one of the reasons why the numbers of children being diagnosed as autistic has risen – because we are only diagnosed when we can’t cope and start to display trauma responses. Most of those trauma responses are most prevalent when children start school/ kinder, because the teachers and schools are being taught at university level to use behavioural techniques on us – which in turn, causes us to seek out NDIS supports and to leave mainstream schooling. The introduction of yet more abusive techniques like the inklings program and PBS will see an even bigger surge in diagnosis numbers. How will you address this when it proves true?
How will you supply alternatives to already cash strapped families – where the medicare rebate does not even cover half a session with an actually suitably qualified professional? These PBS qualified people are not qualified to work with EDS, or incontinence, or apraxia… or infact… any disability, because they are only trained in behaviour modification and control. How will you address issues where children cannot move or walk due to the wrong professionals being accessed because they can no longer access NDIS supports?
Any mass-produced program will be based on ABA:
Even if the government drops the “Inklings” program as the basis for the “Thriving Kids” Program, what guarantees to do we have that the next base program won’t be ABA/ behaviourist based?
All mass produced programs and therapies do harm to autistic people. We are individuals – not sheep to be herded or controlled. Mass therapy is something that has always been based in behaviourism, because it relies on everyone thinking/ acting and responding the same way – as per the “behaviourist manifesto”. They are expected to have the same issues and underlying reasons for their ‘behaviour’. That’s not what autism is.
Autism is an operating system – with many many co-occurring disabilities. Each autistic person has a different number and different types of co occurring disabilities – each with its own needs and specific therapy required to help them. A ‘non-speaking’ child will still require Speech Therapy to find appropriate AAC for them – and to discover the cause of the delay/ or permanent disability in speech (eg: apraxia, dyspraxia, motor disinhibition, ID or GLP) Without the correct supports for the correct diagnosis and issue – the child can remain non-speaking, but with the right supports they can gain appropriate and supportive communication that suits the individual. Behaviourists are not qualified for this – only speech therapists are.
An incontinent child will still need a continence nurse, paediatrician and possibly a gastroenterologist to assist, a behaviourist is not qualified for this – and have actually been proven to make it worse. I know because I run two support groups for ND children with ARFID and incontinence -where
behaviourist methods have previously been used which has resulted in the children being hospitalised… and it has prolonged and in some cases prevented their recovery or ability to cope.
A child with ARFID will still need a dietitian, and OT (to figure out their SPD reasons for ARFID) and possibly a nutritionist.
Please explain how a therapy that was devised by a behaviourist instead of a multidisciplinary team can help instead of harm.
How does a blanket “therapy” that only teaches a child to behave in a ‘typical’ way (and not address those things) help those children? – or a program that teaches a parent how to recognise when a child is dysregulated help an autistic child with those co-occurring things. Autistic children usually are not born without co-occurring disabilities, and those co-occurring things are usually the things that disable us the most – so how do you propose the new program will address those things without spending what NDIS is already spending?
Don’t get me wrong…. Autism also disables us – but it’s usually society that disables us most (because we are autistic)..It’s the schools that use behaviourist techniques on us that make us unable to attend schools, and unable to learn. The Double Empathy Problem that causes typical people to misunderstand us and causes communication difficulties for us. The Uncanny Valley principal that causes typical people to fear, ostracise or hate us.
Autism is incredibly disabling by itself – without our co-occurring disabilities, but what the government is suggesting with this “Thriving Kids” program is not only discrimination, it’s the segregation of autistic people from society. Please explain to me how a program that sees our behaviour as the issue – and not our co-occurring disabilities, and not societies hatred and misunderstanding of us as the issue that needs support here. This program was built on the idea that you just need the parent to understand and connect with the child – which is parent blaming, which is what they did in the 40’s with Kanner’s original diagnoses. Parents don’t need more blame.
Most parents of autistic children, are autistic themselves – but often unidentified or undiagnosed. We don’t need connecting with our children, or with understanding them… often we don’t see a problem with our children until schools say there’s a ‘problem’ or the child starts showing trauma responses to their environment (eg: like returning from school everyday in the trauma response). We don’t even recognise our own neurodivergences until our children are diagnosed – because we think it’s ‘normal’ for a child to do the things that we used to do as children. We don’t need help changing the child – we need help changing society – so we aren’t disabled by it, and help with our co-occurring disabilities.
A program where only parents are taught how to understand us doesn’t help us enter or use society. Our parents often already understand us, and know how to help us….naturally
A program where we are taught to regulate our emotions – but one that isn’t taught to society on how to not trigger that reaction does not help us. If we alone know how to help ourselves – we end up with the same problem that we have now…. A society that disables us, and a society that we must avoid to stay safe.
A program that does not have individual supports such as SLP, Physio, OT, Psych (to help with our ongoing oppression, burnout and depression caused by that program and society that made it) will not help us.
A program that pathologizes our struggles as behavioural instead of understanding that it’s multifaceted will not help us.
A program that is built as a “One size fit’s all” will only ever HARM US!
Please explain how the government will address all of these concerns?
Please explain to me how my children, who cannot access a school will benefit in any way from this program?
Please explain when you will stop the discrimination with ableist programs and ideas like these current ones… and when you are going to respond to our discrimination claims.
Thank you for listening, and I hope you heard.